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Roshtein - Forum
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Pseudo RNG - Higher Stakes

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NOTE - These are my observations and is subject to opinion. Nothing here should be taken as fact and should be used speculatively. 

As you may have noticed with the recent move over to Stake (crypto casino) on Rosh's and TrainWrecks stream, the higher bets has been killing their balance and leading to more frequent deposits.

Does it mean they have bad luck or maybe the RTP has not caught up yet?

Possibly, or more likely they are dealing with a Pseudorandom number generator. 

Definition - 

A pseudorandom number generator (PRNG), also known as a deterministic random bit generator (DRBG),[1] is an algorithm for generating a sequence of numbers whose properties approximate the properties of sequences of random numbers. The PRNG-generated sequence is not truly random, because it is completely determined by an initial value, called the PRNG's seed (which may include truly random values). Although sequences that are closer to truly random can be generated using hardware random number generators, pseudorandom number generators are important in practice for their speed in number generation and their reproducibility.[2]

PRNGs are central in applications such as simulations (e.g. for the Monte Carlo method), electronic games (e.g. for procedural generation), and cryptography. Cryptographic applications require the output not to be predictable from earlier outputs, and more elaborate algorithms, which do not inherit the linearity of simpler PRNGs, are needed.

What is meant by the initial value and how does that determine the seed? The bet size in our case. Depending on the amount you bet, you can get a seed that pays high in bonuses (lower bet amounts) or a seed that pays low in bonuses (higher bet amounts). There are multiple types of seeds, but frequently certain cases show up as we describe below later.

So why does this matter? If the machine isn't truly RNG and is predictable, then you as a player would suffer as result. 

Even today, caution is sometimes required, as illustrated by the following warning in the International Encyclopedia of Statistical Science (2010).[5]

The list of widely used generators that should be discarded is much longer [than the list of good generators]. Do not trust blindly the software vendors. Check the default RNG of your favorite software and be ready to replace it if needed. This last recommendation has been made over and over again over the past 40 years. Perhaps amazingly, it remains as relevant today as it was 40 years ago.

Does Stake and the software vendors (Play'n'go, Pragmatic, Push Gaming, etc) have good reasons to use PRNG?

Psychologically, it seems it has an effect on the players as they chase losses (more spins = more profit for casino) and wanting to hit big (degenerate/addicted). Also with rake-back, "VIP" status, and monthly bonuses you are always drawn to play big thus more deposits to get that big win (In Rosh's and Trainwrecks' case). Not to mention, playing on lower bets and winning big or more frequently, in-turn makes you want to go higher bets. It is a vicious cycle to take your deposit and more.

Business-wise, they can control their ledger much more easier than any other casino. If they needed more profits or to draw more players in, they can ask the vendor to change the PRNG seed or they can change it themselves (their own games). You can detect PRNG by observing the behavior of the machine/slot (patterns on certain bets) and see if they statistically match up or are completely random.

Ways to Detect PRNG - 

In practice, the output from many common PRNGs exhibit artifacts that cause them to fail statistical pattern-detection tests. These include:

  • 1. Shorter-than-expected periods for some seed states (such seed states may be called "weak" in this context);
  • 2. Lack of uniformity of distribution for large quantities of generated numbers;
  • 3. Correlation of successive values;
  • 4. Poor dimensional distribution of the output sequence;
  • 5. Distances between where certain values occur are distributed differently from those in a random sequence distribution.

If you have watched some of the streams of both Rosh and Trainwrecks, they have very long seed states where they hit the bonus in the beginning, then the slot completely dies. This is case #1. (Play'n'go is suspect)

Or they have spun a slot for a very long time, but rarely hit any bonuses. This is case #2. (1000+ spins, Razor Shark/Fruit Party, Mystery Museum)

Or they have many bonuses but are bad payouts. This is case #3. (60-500 Spins)

Or they have a good win (100x+) and then drains more before the next big win. This is case #4. (Ankh of Anubis)

Or they have been winning more in the base game then getting bonuses. This is case #5. (Fruit Party 5000x, Gates of Olympus 2280x)

There is also some cases where the game suddenly has a server error (Push Gaming). A predetermined seed can return an error code easily making it more suspect.


A good PRNG has a mixture of these that seem undetectable but becomes quite noticeable once you change the seed you are on. But wait, aren't you suppose to lose while playing slots? What about volatility? Aren't there laws and regulations that protect us from these situations?

Considering Stake is a Curacao licensed online casino, which have histories of taking their players money and disappearing, a crypto casino, which are largely unregulated, and VPN "friendly", dodging laws and regulation of many countries, of course volatility would be high and you as the player carry all the risk the moment you deposit money in. 

Now that you understand the risks, I have come to believe there is one way to defeat the PRNG set in these games which is by changing the seed you are on.


Ways to Defeat PRNG - 

Changing Bet Size, thus Changing the Seed -

If we can assume your initial seed is the bet size, then the moment you change bet size you get a new seed. Slots/machines are not programmed to have memory, thus the output can only be determined by the initial input. 

For example - Juicy Fruits.

Initial Bet Size - 125 (No Bonus Feature) = Seed - 10001025 (1 Bonus All Dead Spins)

Next Bet Size - 150 (Bonus Feature) = Seed - 10001050 (1 Bonus All Dead Spins)

Back to 125 (No Bonus Feature = Seed - 50001025 (0 Bonuses, Few Base game Wins)

This is a very loose sample and not the case every time. PRNG can include a mixture of random values also. Practically speaking, if you have been dead spinning it would be best to change the seed (case #1 and #2).

Note - This is all theory, but it seems suspicious. They benefit more with PRNG and who can ever prove it? Would you waste millions of dollars to prove a machine on a crypto casino is statistically not correct as listed by the vendor? And if you did prove it some way, they would take all the profits before any fines come there way. It is a lose/lose situation for you as the player. 

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Love the work you put on this. It's a really nice theory and I can feel your theory is right in most cases.
I love the slot Mustang Gold. But everytime I get a big win in base game, or on a bonus. The future wins gets down and I will loose my wins really fast. I usually reload the website after a big win and directly see a reset in wins. If I stick to the spins after a big win, the earned money goes down to maintaining mode, or just loose the whole win really fast.

I have not tried to just decreased/increase the bet-size. But will do that and see if I notice any difference. I feel just a reload of the webpage does a difference, but thats also just a theory.

Much love ❤️ 

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First of all i  know what is pRNG but i disagree, For example if You would ask a provider like Pragmatic about this, they would say that all their slots its based on RNG (which i'm in highly disbelief).  Slots are programmed to the measure where the provider is not losing. What does that mean is that You can not beat him, but You can compete with him. But only if You understand some basic concepts of programming, also how probability works and also how to adapt that concept in to slots( which I won't explain here, but you understand it's the right thing to do). I'm not gonna go in to details cause we would need some enormous data, which is actually not hard to obtain but it takes time. People like Rosh and Train value time more than money, which means that if they spend less time on a particular slot, they have a better chance of hitting "lucky win" than earning money to earn. .  Obviously they would want to know how it works, cause then the could solve it and win a big money with on a big bet size really quick . My point is that they don't know how it works, so they would rather spin slot  faster. A hint: try to think about how a real machine slot works vs a digital one. Good luck in gambling 🙂

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